Derby County: Meet the Derby Reds and Forest Rams

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Although Derby County and Nottingham Forest have long been fierce rivals, the clubs share many links. Peter Seddon dips into the archives to unmask members of that hybrid breed who have proudly worn the colours of both the Rams and the Reds.

FEW would deny that Derby County’s greatest ever manager was Brian Clough. But the self-same cult-figure was also the most brilliant boss ever to take charge of Nottingham Forest, and therein lies one of the true paradoxes of football.

For, while genuine supporters very rarely change their club allegiance, those who make a living from the game habitually switch sides entirely without shame, even between clubs as fiercely opposed as Derby County and Nottingham Forest.

Let’s start with the managers. In their six years in charge at Derby, Brian Clough and Peter Taylor took the club from Second Division mediocrity to the 1971-72 League Championship, so, of course, they are revered by the Rams’ faithful.

But it is all too easy to forget that the same pair later achieved far greater success with Nottingham Forest, taking a largely unsuccessful club to promotion before landing a string of honours; the League Championship in 1977-78, the League Cup in 1978 and 1979 and the coveted European Cup in both 1979 and 1980.

And, while Taylor left Forest in 1981 after just five years there, Clough spent fully 18 seasons “down the A52” before retiring in 1993 after yet more trophy successes…little wonder that Forest fans are apt to claim “old big ’ead” as their very own!

Nor did the managerial crossover end there, although in the case of Dave Mackay it was very much Forest’s loss and Derby’s gain.

In October 1973, Mackay and his assistant, Des Anderson, left the Reds to replace Clough and Taylor as managers of the Rams and, in 1974-75, they promptly landed a second League Championship for Derby while Forest had yet to hit the big time.

But neither Clough nor Mackay were the first managerial “doubles”, for, in May 1936, Forest appointed Harold Wightman as their first ever official team manager, the side having been previously run by an antiquated committee system.

Wightman joined the Reds with a full Derby County pedigree. He played 189 games for the Rams from 1919-27 and, in 1928-29, served as assistant manager to George Jobey.

So that’s Clough, Taylor, Mackay, Anderson and Wightman – every one “Derby through and through” but each an ardent Red to boot!

That takes care of the managers. When it comes to players, the trade between Derby and Forest has been brisk indeed. Since the Second World War 30 or so prominent players have sworn allegiance to both club badges, of which here are just a few.

One of the first of the modern era to make the switch was the Scottish international left-winger Stewart Imlach, who spent an unsuccessful season at Derby in 1954-55 before having a much better time of it at Forest. He played in the 1959 FA Cup Final side which conquered Luton Town at Wembley.

Strangely, Imlach’s ultimate replacement at Forest was an international winger who went in the other direction – England’s Alan Hinton, who many thought had already seen his best days when he left Forest for Derby in 1967.

Indeed, a number of Forest directors were known to have smugly put it about that Derby would “soon be asking for their money back”.

But Brian Clough and Peter Taylor harnessed Hinton’s best qualities to turn “Gladys” into a true Derby legend.

Hinton certainly wasn’t short of familiar faces during his time at Derby, for no fewer than three of his Forest team-mates also joined the Rams during his time at the Baseball Ground.

First came super-sub striker Frank Wignall, then midfielder Terry Hennessey and, finally, utility man Henry Newton, all of whom made telling contributions to Derby’s regular triumphs from 1969 to 1975.

By the mid-70s, it certainly seemed that Derby had cultivated their success with Forest’s generous help, but Clough and Taylor’s arrival at the City Ground was to turn the tables dramatically as a number of key players, who had served under them at Derby, ultimately followed the pair on the short hop to Nottingham.

Could that mighty Forest captain who twice lifted the European Cup really be the shy and retiring John McGovern who had once been the target of the Baseball Ground boo boys?

It was indeed, and among his Forest team-mates in that same era were John O’Hare and Archie Gemmill, all three of them Championship winners with Derby.

And during his time at the City Ground, Brian Clough was to sign still more Derby legends for Forest.

It is often forgotten that Colin Todd, Charlie George and Dean Saunders all pulled on a red shirt after the white.

If that begins to look one-sided, there was some compensatory movement from Forest to Derby, but none which put worthwhile silverware in the Rams’ trophy cabinet.

So, although three of Forest’s European Cup winners joined Derby, all arrived with their best days already behind them.

They were goalkeeper Peter Shilton, central defender Kenny Burns and winger John Robertson, all of whom signed for Derby in the 80s at a time when Forest’s great successes were still fresh and the Rams were, by comparison, in the wilderness.

One of those signings, too, had very sad consequences. Peter Taylor had rejoined Derby as manager when, in 1983, he signed John Robertson.

But Forest boss Clough felt his old mate had pulled off an underhand deal, and the two former partners fell out, never to reconcile their differences before Taylor’s death in Majorca in October 1990.

Clough later expressed his bitter regret that they had never made up, and all because of a Forest-Derby deal which, in truth, was of scant significance.

While the deals touched upon so far involved high-profile players, many lesser moves between the clubs have occurred.

Players graduating from Forest to Derby have included goalkeepers John Middleton and Steve Sutton, defenders Gary Charles, Gary Mills and Darren Wassall, midfielders Steve Hodge and Lars Bohinen and winger Calvin Plummer.

And going in the other direction have been Barry Butlin, Glyn Hodges and Darryl Powell.

So, how might an all-time Combined XI look?

Try this one for size: Peter Shilton, Darren Wassall, Kenny Burns, Colin Todd, Gary Mills, John McGovern, Terry Hennessey, Archie Gemmill, Dean Saunders, Charlie George and Alan Hinton.

Subs: Steve Sutton, Frank Wignall, John Robertson, John O’Hare, Darryl Powell. Managers: Brian Clough and Peter Taylor. Trainer: Jimmy Gordon.

If the strength of that side is anything to go by, might there be a case for Derby County and Nottingham Forest disbanding altogether to form a new club called Derby Forest?

Of course, the fans would never stand for it. And there is the difference between spectatorship and participation.

So, while purely commercial transfers between Derby and Forest will continue unabated, both sets of supporters will stick with their sides through thick and thin and greet hapless returnees with a loud chorus of “reject” chants.

That is the ultimate price to be paid for the heinous crime of changing the shirt!

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